The intense international agenda of President Lula confirms that his chancellor, Mauro Vieira (Niterói, 75 years old), has accomplished the mission. Brazil is making a great return to the global scene. To a world, yes, in convulsion. Half a century of diplomatic career has inscribed restraint in Vieira’s DNA. While the president of the first superpower, Donald Trump, imposes the law of the strongest, Vieira and his team remain faithful to a diplomatic tradition of decades: negotiation to resolve conflicts and dialogue with everyone, without distinctions. with that recipe, they won the tariff battle to Trump. Lula is preparing to visit him in Washington, and in April, he travels to Barcelona to meet with the Spanish president, Pedro Sánchez. Vieira received EL PAÍS this Friday at the Itamaraty Palace in Rio de Janeiro, headquarters of the Foreign Ministry when the city was the capital.
Ask. In two months, Trump has captured Maduro y killed JameneíAbuse the military power of the United States?
Answer. Look, Brazil defends multilateralism, the United Nations and the principles of our foreign policy are non-intervention, territorial integrity and the autonomy of States. We criticize and deeply regret the intervention in Venezuela because it contravenes international law and sets a very serious precedent. It is not about defending or criticizing Maduro, for one country to invade another and kidnap the president is serious for coexistence. We also deeply regret the start of this war in the Middle East, in Iran. I spoke this week with the foreign minister of Oman, the mediator, and the frustration is immense because they did not wait for negotiations will conclude.
P. Trump just repeated that, when he finishes Iran, Cuba is next. What do you think?
R. What I said about the intervention in Venezuela and the war in Iran applies to Cuba. These are decisions of the United States Government, I cannot speculate. We hope it doesn’t happen. If it happens, we will have the same reaction.
R. Whoever intervenes here and there and breaks the rules is the first power in the world. What can Brazil do about that?
R. We do not have weapons of mass destruction or nuclear weapons. And we would not use them because Brazil is a peaceful country that defends dialogue. We can only resort to multilateral mechanisms, to the UN. Incidentally, the entire system derived from the terrible disaster of World War II bears the mark of the United States, which promoted this mechanism based on respect for countries and international law. Brazil is totally in favor.
“Brazil does not have weapons of mass destruction, it can only turn to the UN”
P. Washington has taken the opposite tack.
R. What can I do? Our direction will be political debate, discussion in international organizations and criticism of the use of force.
P. President Pedro Sánchez writes in The Economist that it is time to “choose between the rule of force and the force of rules.”
R. Completely agree.
P. President Trump welcomes a dozen people this Saturday in Florida ideologically related Latin American presidents. How do you see the meeting?
R. Like any other. The United States invited some countries. On other occasions to others. President Trump has invited President Lula to visit the United States; We are working on a date.
P. Secretary of War Pete Hegseth seeks military cooperation against drug cartels in Latin America.
R. I haven’t seen that statement yet, what I can tell you is that [en Brasil] We have a proposal to combat organized crime, arms trafficking and transnational crimes with the United States that we deal with bilaterally.
P. Latin America is the main scene of the commercial and political battle between Washington and Beijing. Will the meeting with Trump be the seed of a coalition to reduce Chinese influence?
R. Look, Brazil has an excellent relationship with China, very important. It is our first business partner for 15 years. Now, we are not worried about any type of meeting. There are many other groups that Brazil is not a part of. All countries that will participate tomorrow [sábado] In this meeting they have very intense relations with Brazil.
P. The United States demands a choice between itself and China.
R. He has never told us that.
R. Have you ever pressured them to stay away from China?
R. No. We maintain a very intense dialogue with the United States at all levels. I speak with the current Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. We have met two or three times in person. President Lula has already met with President Trump and their conversations are very correct, very friendly and deal with issues of interest to both countries, without any type of imposition by either party.
P. Lula recently stated that “the important thing now in Venezuela is to restore democracy.” Opposition leader María Corina Machado has announced his return. Does Brazil consider it essential that it can participate in elections?
R. That is up to the Venezuelan people to decide. I think it is excellent that, as a political leader, she returns and participates in the great political debate that must take place in Venezuela. All opposition parties and forces should participate, debate and reach a position.
I think it is excellent that, as a political leader, [María Corina Machado] Come back and participate in the great political debate that must take place in Venezuela
P. You know Delcy Rodríguez well, interim president of a Venezuela under the tutelage of the United States. Are you surprised to see her in that role?
R. That is up to the Venezuelans and her. I met her when we were chancellors, a little over ten years ago. we had a troika of Unasur and we traveled to Venezuela frequently to dialogue with the government and promote dialogue between the opposition and the Venezuelan Government. It was in the Nunciature, with Cardinal Pietro Parolin, who is the Secretary of State of the Vatican and knows Venezuela very well.
P. Brazil defends that Maduro be tried in Venezuela, not in the United States.
R. It was the president. Kidnapping him from Venezuela was an attack on international law. I should go back. And, if in light of Venezuelan law he must be judged, let him be judged.
P. What is Brazil’s priority objective in Lula’s visit to Trump, now that they have just overcome the worst moment in the bilateral relationship in 200 years?
R. It wasn’t the worst, no, no. Whenever there is dialogue, it is a good sign. President Lula and President Trump did not know each other. They had initial contact at the UN last year. Afterwards, a excellent personal meetingin Malaysia. Fifty very productive minutes. While they did not have contact, there was always dialogue with other spheres of the Government.
P. He put the highest tariffs in the world on them, like on India.
R. But they no longer exist.
R. Brazil was one of the few countries that stood firm in the tariff negotiation. What did you learn about negotiating with such an unconventional president?
P. Brazil learned many years ago to negotiate and defend its interests. That’s what we did, calmly, dialogue, discussing facts, explaining that the arguments used to impose tariffs were absolutely fallacious. I think Trump’s team misinformed him.
“We do not need clubs, but spaces for negotiation to end the great scourges of humanity”
P. Prime Minister Mark Carney of Canada proposes that the middle powers unite in the face of the hostility of the superpowers. Would Brazil enter that club?
R. We do not need clubs, but understanding between countries, spaces for negotiation against the scourges of humanity. President Lula stated the day before yesterday at a FAO meeting that if we divide what was spent on weapons in 2025 between those who suffer from hunger around the planetit would be $5,000 per person. If that money could be used to fight hunger, wouldn’t the world be better off?
P. Brazil supports, with Chile and Mexico, Michelle Bachelet as UN leadership candidate. Beyond her resume, why is it important that she is a woman?
R. She has an unmatched resume and ten years ago it was expected that the UN would elect a woman. Considering the Government’s policies in favor of women, it is natural that we support it. Furthermore, due to natural rotation, it is Latin America’s turn, which only had one secretary general 40 years ago. Africa has had two; Europe, four; Asia, two. It is time for him to return to our region, and why not a woman?
