Meeting forums between senior kiai and Mustasyar and conflicting parties in PBNU issues have been held twice. The first was held at the Ploso Islamic Boarding School, Kediri; the second was held at the Tebuireng Islamic Boarding School, Jombang. However, these two agendas have not been able to bring Rais Aam together with the General Chairperson directly. The results of the Ploso and Tebuireng meeting also did not show concrete follow-up.
These considerations then prompted the elderly kiai and Mustasyar to hold a follow-up meeting. On Sunday (21/12/2025), at Mustasyar’s request, the Lirboyo Islamic Boarding School, Kediri, will host a follow-up meeting entitled ‘Musyawarah Kubro’.
NOW Online received a digital copy of the Kubro Deliberation invitation letter on Thursday (18/12/2025). In the letter, two invitees’ signatures were added, namely KH M Anwar Manshur as Sohibul Hajat and KH Abdullah Kafabihi Mahrus as Sohibul Bait. The list of recipients of invitations is also included in it.
We then submitted an interview request to KH Abdulloh Kafabihi Mahrus (Kiai Kafa). He is ready. In the midst of his busy life teaching and receiving guests, the 65 year old Lirboyo Islamic Boarding School teacher took the time to interview us on Saturday (20/12/2025).
In a 1.5 hour interview via Zoom, Kiai Kafa explained his views and concerns regarding the problems at PBNU. “Don’t let us put each other down, abuse each other. If this conflict continues, who is the sinner?” he said.
But Kiai Kafa didn’t just express anxiety. With his characteristic smooth and calm voice, he still managed to joke that he applauded the problems at PBNU these days. “I give the thumbs up to PBNU. Not even the Congress can make waves,” said the kiai who also serves as Rais Syuriyah for PBNU while chuckling.
Listen to Kiai Kafa’s complete interview as told to the Editor-in-Chief NOW Online Ivan Aulia Ahsan, Editor Ahmad Muntaha, Producer Ahmad Naufa, and Journalist Achmad Risky AM.
Two meetings of senior kiai and Mustasyar PBNU in Ploso and Tebuireng do not appear to have resulted in a clear follow-up. Is the Kubro Deliberation in Lirboyo tomorrow a continuation of these two meetings?
Yes, right. The Kubro deliberation in Lirboyo was a concern of the senior kiai, PBNU Mustasyar, Islamic Boarding School kiai, PW, and PC. Then, based on this concern, Lirboyo wanted to be the host, even though he was very forced. It’s not holiday time yet [para santri]. So, we only accommodate and accept as hosts, as a space to provide a solution that is hopefully good and pleasing to God.
However, we still give PBNU a thumbs up. Great, before the Congress it was possible to make breakthroughs like this. But maybe that’s the interesting side. Ha ha ha.
We are used to business [konflik] fellow NU people. Usually decorated with ger-geran. This means that all the problems and problems that have occurred have solutions. And finally, yes that was it, geran, hug. Moreover, we have events like halalbihalal and others. God willing, we husnudzan to the kiai that everyone wants NU to be good. Once again, we give a thumbs up to PBNU because it can provide extraordinary conflict management, so that NU becomes a concern.
We as the host, yes that’s it, [menganggap Musyawarah Kubro] as a form of concern for Nahdlatul Ulama, an organization founded by ulama. And those who look after NU are ulama and Islamic students. So, as Islamic boarding school people, we are called to go there. Moreover, for example, Kiai Abdul Karim (founder of the Lirboyo Islamic Boarding School) was a student of Almaghfurlah Syaikhuna Kiai Kholil Bangkalan. Then, Kiai Abdul Karim; Kiai Mahrus Ali, my parents; and Kiai Marzuki is also a student of Hadratussyaikh Kiai Muhammad Hasyim Asy’ari. So we care about what happens within NU.
And don’t forget, NU is an extension of Islamic boarding school da’wah to preach in society, in government, even at the international level, and so on. So, for example, if NU is in decline, this is also dangerous for Islamic boarding schools, and could even be dangerous for the Indonesia we love. This means that we really hope that NU, Nahdliyin and PBNU can solve their own problems. We hope that this problem will not be resolved by people outside Nahdlatul Ulama. Because after all, it is the ulama who usually provide solutions to problems.
How does the Islamic boarding school world view the problems at PBNU?
We actually have extraordinary capital. Islamic boarding school people have morals and manners. In contracts and other things, for example, Islamic boarding school people have rules. The maritalization of the treasurement of the (O you who believe, fulfill the agreements).
I give an example in terms of muamalah. Bai‘ (seller) must submit bad‘ (merchandise) in undamaged condition, intact. Meanwhile Jupiter (buyer) must submit wait (payment money) which is not counterfeit money. Keep going in ijarah (rental). For example, if we rent a car, there must be rules for using it. Cars to be rented from Surabaya to Jakarta cannot be taken to Sumatra. Then in terms of economics. People have capital but cannot manage money, there are contracts qiradh (capital) that regulates factor (manager) and malikul mall (capital owner). In gardening, there is a contract lap. People have a garden but can’t look after it, then someone will look after the garden, then it’s agreed on a fee like that.
In principle, we are neighbors, we are together, and we carry out our mandate, there are rules. And also al-Muslimlim inda syuruthim, Muslims are given the freedom to do so by Allah [membuat] conditions that do not violate the Sharia. Conditions that do not justify haram goods. For example, in an organization, for example NU, a General Chairperson or Rais Aam cannot hold concurrent positions in a political party. There is no evidence for this in the Qur’an. However, God has given us the freedom to provide such conditions. Well, if we violate [syarat itu]means we are violating the organization. Organizations have rules. So, God willing, if we enforce organizational rules, everything will be good.
I’ll give an example again. We Muslims are used to creating and solving problems. Example in bahtsul masail. In bahtsul masail, many problems are discussed and resolved by Nahdliyin, Islamic boarding school people, so that there are solutions. Even if there is mawquf (dead end), usually just a few.
We have jurisprudence. We also have Sufism to solve things with kindness. For example, khudzil ‘afwa wa’mur bil ‘urfi wa a’rid anil jahilin (Forgive, enjoin goodness, and turn away from fools).
In principle, if we want, then the capital owned by Islamic boarding school people can solve problems. But, the question is, whether we want to use this capital or not. Ha ha ha.
Does this mean there must be islah?
The form of the term depends on the formula. Islah can be like this or that, depending on what happens next [situasi] in the field. We, the Lirboyo Islamic Boarding School, remain in a middle condition. In the middle. However, we are very hopeful [persoalan di PBNU] resolved by NU people themselves, not resolved by people from outside. NU people have knowledge, can they solve people’s problems from outside? It’s not appropriate. Not to mention there are issues about bohir-bohir and so on. This is NU. So, in principle, what we are defending is NU so that NU can be good and intact.
So, yes, that was it, I emphasize once again that actually if we want to solve it organizationally, NU has the provisions. It can be in fiqh, it can also be in Sufism. Hopefully we all have the awareness to resolve the problem and each person in conflict has good intentions for the good of Nahdlatul Ulama. Maslahatul ‘ammah we should first of all maslahatul khasshah.
We understand that humans are wrong. Any human being must make a mistake. Even the Prophet was wrong, but the Prophet did not sin, ma’shum. For example, the Prophet once wanted to pray ra’isu munafiqin (leader of the hypocrites), then prevented by Sayidina Umar, however [Nabi Muhammad] keep praying for him. After that, Surah At-Taubah Verse 84 came down [“Dan juga jika kelak mereka meninggal dunia, maka janganlah engkau, wahai Nabi Muhammad, melaksanakan shalat jenazah untuk seseorang yang mati di antara mereka, orang-orang munafik, selama-lamanya dan janganlah engkau mengantar jenazahnya serta berdiri untuk mendoakan di atas kuburnya”].
For example in Islamic boarding schools. There was a student who made a mistake because Isha’s father left the hut and was criticized. The student’s mistake did not violate the Sharia. There is no evidence in the Qur’an that prohibits this. But God has given us the freedom to take action limaslahatthat is through the takzir.
Once again, hopefully through the elders and Islamic boarding school people, and by holding the Kubro Deliberation in Lirboyo, NU can get out of its problems. God willing, we will all prioritize maslahatul ‘ammah.
As for the islah formula, it depends. Islah is not only for the right people, but also for the wrong people and the right people. The Prophet, for example, made peace with the Quraysh in the Treaty of Hudaybiyah. Sayidina Umar protested when accepting the agreement, “Why are we islah or suluh everything, when The sweater sweater is the ‘hort of the waist, waist. (the people who died our war victims in heaven and we are in the truth; while their war victims in hell, are in falsehood)? Why not just continue the war?” But the Prophet wanted to reform. And fix it there, in the Hudaibiyah Agreement, the Prophet gave in. The Prophet gave in.
So, the Qur’an calls for forgiveness for those in conflict. Wa aslihu dzata bainikum (and reconcile those of you who are in conflict), wa Aslihu Baina Akhowaikum (and make peace among your brothers), was sulhu khair (and reconciliation is best), and so on.
What about the role of the Tahkim Council?
Suppose we will solve internally, [sepakati dulu] Who is the interpreter, and what is the concept? For example, through the Tahkim Council. Since the Tahkim Council contains people involved in conflict, we can appoint people who are fair, that is, create a new, fair Tahkim Council. Keep going sam’an wa tha’atan with its decisions. God willing, there will be a way. It’s just whether we want it or not.
As for the formula, it’s up to you, we can’t determine. We have Mustasyar, we have many kiai who are still wise and wise. Let them decide. That way, hopefully there will be conflict in NU ending which is good. We are just trying.
Which is the best approach to dealing with problems at PBNU: organizationally, fiqh, or Sufism?
My current position at PBNU is as Rais Syuriyah. I can’t choose which formula is the best. There are people who have more authority over me. Unless the problem is the Lirboyo students, yes we can take action as freely as we can. Ha ha ha.
NU concerns millions of people, it cannot be equated with Islamic boarding schools. If it’s a boarding school, it’s small, right? So, for NU, stability must be prioritized. In Islamic boarding schools, we can easily remove wrong administrators. But this is NU. After all, NU is a mandate, we at NU carry out the mandate of the ulama.
For example, at NU there is something wrong, so let’s process it. However, how to process it is what must be considered. Don’t let us put each other down, abuse each other. If this conflict continues, the question is: who is the sinner? That’s it. Then, there was harassment and debates in WhatsApp groups until people fought. This is a hassle, isn’t it? Isn’t it sinful? Who bears it?
I want to tell a story. In the past, before the 1984 Congress, there was a conflict in Nahdlatul Ulama between the Cipete group and the Situbondo group. [KH As’ad Syamsul Arifin] I’m just suggesting [KH Idham Chalid] to step back. After Mr. Idham stepped down [melalui surat pengunduran diri]then revoked his vow. Then Kiai Ali Maksum (Krapyak) protested at that time, how come the pledge was revoked. Kiai Ali Maksum came out with his fiqh: a person who has made a vow cannot be revoked.
But endingit’s beautiful. There is an islah in Surabaya, at Kiai Hasjim Latief’s house. Then it was finalized at the Congress. Hopefully [persoalan di PBNU] Now that’s how it will end. We hope everything is fine. We already have ideas on how the ulama used to solve problems. This is not the only conflict.
Other examples from the past exist [konflik] Get Subhan ZE [dengan Rais Aam PBNU KH Bisri Syansuri] and others. We are used to conflict and the ancients can be used as guidance on how to really solve NU’s problems; not fighting, not breaking up.
I think if the conflict continues, I’m afraid it will result in sin [orang-orang saling] hurt. It’s better for us to defeat our egos, we prioritize NU’s interests. Let’s see again, people with each other beating. Below, the people were already divided. There are lots of complicated dirty words. Therefore we must also think about Sufism, about the afterlife. Apart from that, the rules within the organization are also taken into account. Actually, if we want, [persoalan di PBNU] It can be resolved organizationally, it can be resolved in jurisprudence, it can also be resolved in Sufism which prioritizes adab. It’s just a matter of how we move towards it. That’s it.
What will the format of the Kubro Deliberation event be?
We actually held the Kubro Deliberation in order to facilitate Mustasyar’s request. So we don’t know what the format is. The Mustasyar and the older kiai will decide. We are subordinates sam’an wa tha’atan just.
Are the two conflicting parties invited to the Kubro Conference?
Yes, everyone is invited. That’s why we hope there will be islah in Lirboyo. This Kubro deliberation should not be accused of being “slanted”, yes, it should not be accused of being partisan. We look at it with clear eyes. We just want to reconcile, reconcile, so that NU will be good. If NU is good, why is Lirboyo calling out or getting involved? Ha ha ha.
The unrest below was already overwhelming. If this continues, this SK on a number of PCs doesn’t work, it’s a dead end. If the struggle is deadlocked, we cannot move. NU needs to be strong, a’dangum (stay with the congregation). If NU happens jam’iyah Those who are strong will certainly be taken into account by others.
What are you and the Islamic boarding school kiai most worried about regarding the problems at PBNU?
What we’re worried about are the voices below. Because underneath it’s restless, ya man lam yahtamma amril Muslimin falaisa minhum (people who do not care about the affairs of Muslims, then do not deserve to join their group). So, we just care (care). Actually, we don’t want to be bothered, but, for the good of NU, we don’t have a problem. So, don’t understand that the term is slanted. No. God willing, the Mustasyar will try to make the terms fair. As for whether the advice is accepted or not, that’s a matter for later. The important thing is that we brought Mustasyar. And this Kubro Deliberation was Mustasyar’s initiative, not Pondok Lirboyo.
From this problem at PBNU, what is the biggest lesson we can learn?
In my opinion, in the future, especially during the Congress, it can be used as a momentum for debate and renewal of the NU AD/RT. This AD/ART needs to be regulated so that NU can become better. What is happening now is a new type of conflict, the current protests are also new. This all has wisdom that we don’t know. Well, NU has extraordinary capital. NU can become stronger, NU more successful, NU more experienced.
